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#1 firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe. a compliment?
operamuse Posted on: 6 Mar 2005 15:58
when i saw phantom, i thought is was very strange that andre and firmin were drinking champange out of carlotta's shoe during prima donna. they looked terribly disgusted by this, but carlotta seemed to dig it. my friend told me that back then, drinking out of a lady's shoe was a compliment. is this true? cause if it is, it seems kinda weird.


#2 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
phantompicc Posted on: 6 Mar 2005 16:05
I've never heard anything abut it but I thought it was hilarious.

Emma


#3 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
Shonai Posted on: 6 Mar 2005 16:29
This practice was prevalent in the theater in Europe and the US up until the late 1920's. I believe it traces its roots back to the custom of kissing the kings feet from ancient Egypt. It is my belief that the managers expression was not about the custom but the things one had to put up with to keep the singer happy.


#4 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
Jennie Posted on: 6 Mar 2005 18:09
It was Firmin who drank out of Carlotta's heel-less slipper, André poured the champagne and handed it over to his poor colleague.... I have heard about this before, drinking champagne out of a lady's shoe.... 18th century habit, not done in the best social circles, or with "real" ladies, more likely with courtesans (prostitutes) & actresses, if I remember right...

Have found a more recent champagne-shoe drinking thing, Jack Nicholson drinking out of Louise Burstyn's shoe..... wonder if she could wear it afterwards again??

http://www.littlereview.com/goddesslouise/articles/insidosc.htm


#5 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
satyriasis Posted on: 7 Mar 2005 19:06
Remember, the song is "Prima Donna" and the lyrical content is about groveling to appease their star who is threatening to leave the Opera (no Carlotta, no profits). Ciaran Hinds as Firmin did a great job in conveying his extreme reluctance to drink from the shoe.

Personally, I'm repulsed by it but I understand it.

How can anyone rip this scene (as it's one of the few Schumacher got right)? It's perfect!


#6 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
POTO07dr Posted on: 11 Mar 2005 2:31
I found this quite disgusting, i mean with there poor hygene from back then, its kinda disgusting...


#7 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
Daroga Posted on: 11 Mar 2005 2:36
Quote:

POTO07dr wrote:
I found this quite disgusting, i mean with there poor hygene from back then, its kinda disgusting...


Oh gross, I don't even want to think about that. I thought it was a gross custom even before you said that. Now I have visions of her unwashed feet. Ewwww.


#8 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
MIRROR Posted on: 11 Mar 2005 2:40
Smelly unwashed Carlotta! Ooh, I'm going to call people unwashed toads now.....


#9 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
Meg_Giry Posted on: 11 Mar 2005 3:20
Hrm...thank you for pointing that out. Interesting custom. *removes paper and pen out of pocket* I shall add that to my list of ways to kill Raoul. *scribbles on paper* Make idiot drink champagne out of Carlotta's smelly bacteria filled shoe.


#10 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
PryingPandora Posted on: 11 Mar 2005 3:52
What if the lady had really sweaty stinky feet? I bet they wouldn't able to stomach that..That's nasty..I mean can you imagine if guys did that today..They would one most likely vomit because that's sick, and then two the woman would think they were nuts..I hate feet...But then again there are some people out there who have fetishes for feet..So whether it be back then or now I guess it's really whatever floats your boat.


#11 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
Meg_Giry Posted on: 11 Mar 2005 3:54
Quote:

PryingPandora wrote:
What if the lady had really sweaty stinky feet? I bet they wouldn't able to stomach that..That's nasty..I mean can you imagine if guys did that today..They would one most likely vomit because that's sick, and then two the woman would think they were nuts..I hate feet...But then again there are some people out there who have fetishes for feet..So whether it be back then or now I guess it's really whatever floats your boat.
LOL...just like that guy in Mr. Deeds! "I like feet...I don't know why..." He woulda be ahnored to drinka outa Carlotta's shoe!


#12 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
Elaviel Posted on: 11 Mar 2005 4:09
Hey operamuse, this sounds bad of me, but thought I'd point out; the Phantoms bed is a Phoenix, not a swan *hides*


#13 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
Satine Posted on: 11 Mar 2005 4:39
I had no idea they actually did that back then...hmmm.but anyways I still thought it was really gross... lol..the look on his face was hilarous!!


#14 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
EternalMasque Posted on: 11 Mar 2005 16:36
Yes, the custom was quite popular among courtesans and thespians back in the 19th century. It was actually quite amusing to see, as they actually put a real piece of history into the film and did it correctly! lol It does in fact mirror grovelling at one's foot of royalty, and the reluctance from Firmin fit perfectly. As most 'servants' aren't exactly fond of doing so, they still must masque their true feelings of disgust and carry on as if their one soul purpose is to serve, and please their so called 'puppeteer'.


#15 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
Laura-anne Posted on: 11 Mar 2005 17:25
why would anyone drink out of carlottas shoe?????
yuck, i would never do anything like that, even if it was to keep a 'diva' happy


#16 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
satyriasis Posted on: 12 Mar 2005 4:50
Quote:

Meg_Giry wrote:
Hrm...thank you for pointing that out. Interesting custom. *removes paper and pen out of pocket* I shall add that to my list of ways to kill Raoul. *scribbles on paper* Make idiot drink champagne out of Carlotta's smelly bacteria filled shoe.


Sagacious.



#17 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
the_masked_maiden Posted on: 5 Apr 2005 15:43
I haven't heard that it was a compliment. Leferve (sp?) told Firmin and Andre to kiss up to her... I guess if that was the way they wanted to do it, more power to them! lol. I thought it was gross but funny that anyone would do that. I fit was considered a compliment I wonder who started it?


#18 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
THEUNLOVEDPHANTOM Posted on: 5 Apr 2005 22:38
Ya.Back then they thought if they drank from the stars shoe it meant you would have a good performance.Kind of like a rabbits foot.


#19 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
phantomsgirl Posted on: 7 Apr 2005 20:38
Ok, but still Carlotta's Shoe?? ewwwwwwww!


#20 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
CarlottaGuidicelli Posted on: 7 Apr 2005 20:47
Quote:

phantomsgirl wrote:
Ok, but still Carlotta's Shoe?? ewwwwwwww!


It's better than drinking out of Christine's shoe. ;)


#21 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
Selise Posted on: 8 Apr 2005 17:40
If I were Firmin, I would never drink out of Carlotta's (or anyone's) shoe. It's disgusting!


#22 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
phantomsgirl Posted on: 8 Apr 2005 17:52
Quote:

CarlottaGuidicelli wrote:
Quote:

phantomsgirl wrote:
Ok, but still Carlotta's Shoe?? ewwwwwwww!


It's better than drinking out of Christine's shoe. ;)


That is true..........


#23 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
SeraphimAngel Posted on: 13 Jun 2005 3:00
Quote:

phantomsgirl wrote:
Quote:

CarlottaGuidicelli wrote:
Quote:

phantomsgirl wrote:
Ok, but still Carlotta's Shoe?? ewwwwwwww!


It's better than drinking out of Christine's shoe. ;)


That is true..........


LOL......... OMG, you guys are mean...

Yes, I'll second the one who said it was done back then in France, that a man would drink from the leading lady's shoe to ensure a good performance. I feel SO SORRY for Firmin, he looked like he was going to die!!! LOL....

But hahahaaha, yes, Carlotta's shoe is better than Christine's!!! I'm not the biggest Christine fan after she broke Erik's heart all through POTO!!!


#24 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
Tauralmie Posted on: 13 Jun 2005 3:04
i know it was a thing to do back then but it was still gross...i remember taking my younger brother to see the movie (and later on the play) and when he saw that he was...let's say grossed out and couldnt believe that it was actually done


#25 Re: firmin and andre drinking out of carlotta's shoe
Posted on: 13 Jun 2005 10:46
The thing is Christine would never have put them in that position... she's too nice..



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