Don't worry, Norina. I didn't misunderstand. I was just wondering if not having gone all the way would make him any less of a rapist. To me, it did seem entirely like he was going to, but then we wouldn't really know whether he was going to or not.

I hope I haven't offended you.

I rather enjoyed this one. I actually despise horror movies but this one was good. i love the Don Juan Music it was absoulutly beautiful.

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I'm not offended.

I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not one of those girls who makes excuses for disgusting behaviour... even if the one doing it is Erik!

Because there ARE some girls on these forums that would say:

"OMFG! Eric wood not rape Christeen!!1 He iz hur TROO LUV!"

In the case of Erik Destler, I do not think anyone could argue that it ISN'T possible rape would've been the next step. More likely than not, he would have raped her.

But what we see in the finished product of the movie, (the lines and the shots that are filmed) doesn't clearly show those were indeed his intentions. And it does not show a rape. Perhaps it's better that way (open to one's interpretation).

I guess it is better that way, after all we wouldn't being enjoying this discussion if it were clearer!

In regards to whether or not Erik would do that, I think that Erik Destler is a yes, however I can't see Leroux's or Kays phantom doing the same thing, they are just different characters.

p.s. This Argento Phantom intrigues me.

p.p.s. I know I shouldn't double post but my computer stuffs up if i try to update

Actually, I can see Lerou's Erik doing that. The guy is pretty nutty and with all the things he does to Christine when she pulls off his mask and after he takes her from the stage. That's one of the reasons I like Englund's Phantom so much, because he characterizes and embodies Erik's insanity so well. Well, except for manybe Leroux is a little more innocent loony bin crazy without showing full consciousness that he's crazy and Englund's just plain evil ,diabolically crazy.

I suppose if you look at it that way it makes a lot of sense, but it certainly wouldn't be pre-meditated, more of a crazy rage thing.

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See, I don't think he WOULD have. But I'll go about my explanation intelligently and not at all in a n00blike manner.

Englund!Phantom is quite obviously the second cousin (if not bastard brother) to my beloved hero: Freddy Krueger. Played by the same brilliant actor and following the same horror movie storyline. However Erik Destler; as we see him in the flashbacks, is clearly a shy and unassuming musician. You can hear it in the softness of his voice when he is speaking with Mephisto and making his deal. More evidence is his gentleness with the prostitute, Maddie. He could just have his way with her and kill her, but he doesn't. Perhaps it is just because I have such a love for the character, but I can't see him raping Christine. Manipulating, guilting, or persauding... that is another thing altogether.

Just watched it for the first time last night. I actually liked this version. It really captured the claustrophobic seediness of those times with all the cobblestoned, narrow streets and falling snow. This is how I imagined a real Phantom to be like, very dangerous, teacher like, strict, yet nervous as a school boy as one Phan described it. However, the stupid modern portion of the movie took away from the movie. If they just cut those out, it would be pretty good.

Can you imagine what JS's movie would've been like if they substituted the darn sword fight between Raoul and Phantom with the Phantom taking out a whip or a noose or a dagger and disappearing and reappearing like he did in this version? That would've been so cool! And if the graveyard were a little more degraded, dark, and scary like in this version's. It would've been delightful!

Also, did Christine and the Phantom (pardon my bluntness) "do it" during the scene in which Erik says "Tonight, you shall be my bride" after he put the ring on her finger. The camera just cuts away to another scene. Just wondering. hmmm

Quote:That's actually been speculated throughout this thread. Some say yes, some say no, some don't want to believe it, some can't make up their minds and take a different position every time the matter comes up.

I've actually been debating on whether or not I should see this version. Most of the reviews I've read are quite good, and I'm very curious to see it for myself as well.

However, I am not a fan of blood. As in I just can't stand it (I hid behind a pillow while watching Sweeney Todd). So basically my question is, is it worth my nightmares and hiding behind furniture, or should I just skip it?

I really enjoyed this version! Even though Some might think the skin grafting thing was nasty...I honestly thought it was cool...sure I would choose the mask over it anytime, but I thought it was a nice twist. I didn't like how it started and ended in Modern time though...but overall I thought it was good so I purchased the movie and it is displayed with all the other Phantom stuff I own.

I didn't dislike this version, however I didn't like it either. I knew that it was not going to be romantic, but I was expecting more from the ''relationship'' between Christine and Erik. Not a lot more, but still, it would have been agreeable to feel that there was something going on between them; even if it's not love. I loved the actor that played Raoul (Richard, in the movie) because for once, I cared about what was going to happen to that character, I sincerely wanted him to be with Christine.

I loved Robert Englund interpretation of the phantom. This is definitely not the way I see that character, but he was doing an amazing job at showing the darkest side of Erik's personality. More, he was able to give to his character a bit of humanity despite his cruelty and violence. When Christine performed, we could feel that he believed in her and cared about her: he was proud of his protégé. He also cried when Christine sang the lyrics of his song: I can't help but think that this scene was beautiful, even with the glooming sensation I had while watching the movie, that moment was magic.

Many lines were beautiful, this one is my favorite: In your dressing room, I could only teach you the words, the notes. But here, I can teach you the meaning . I think that it was a wonderful contrast with the gross aspect of the movie. It pushed me to believe that maybe, there was still a beating heart in that damned phantom of hell.

I didn't find it too disgusting: I was expecting something worse, even if Erik's methods to kill were absolutely horrible. I also think that in some ways, that movie was faithful to Leroux's version. The atmosphere was different of course, darker and scarrier, but there were many similarities. Sadly, I didn't have the impression that Erik loved Christine, I saw his feelings for her as lust, passion and obsession, but certainly not love; except at the beginning of the movie, during Christine's performance for example.

As for the melody of Don Juan Triumphant, I really liked it: it was sad, soft, poetic and simply marvelous.

I have actually only seen the skin grafting part of the movie, which was horrifyingly intriguing (as gross as it sounds...). However, coming from the man who played Freddy, this is kinda a step down for him. For a person who loved the Charles Dance version and ALWs version, would this be a movie to watch or to skip?

You should definitely watch it. It's actually quite romantic, with a bunch of totally cheesy "You got PWNed" one-liners. Englund plays a both timid and psychotic Phantom. It's a sweet movie if you try to overlook everything else. And since you've seen the skin grafting, you've already sat through one of the worse parts. Now there's just...

Spoiler:

My favorite cheesy one-liner was when he said "You've been suspended!" It made me smile - in a sick, twisted way, I guess.

Yeah, Robert Englund wasn't too bad of an Erik. I've seen worse. *cough*Argento's*cough* (Don't remember the actor's name in that version.)

Too bad I have not seen this version because reviews made me intrigued. Even although I loathe gore. Gore=sleaze.

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If you love the musical and the Charlse Dance version then you must like the romantic aspects of Phantom. Then this movie may not be for you. I first saw this movie on VHS when I was seven and the bloody parts made me feel sick. They don't bother me now however, now that I've seen hundreds of other gorery movies(The Friday the 13th series,the Halloween series, The Nightmare on Elm Street series, The Texas Chainsaw Massecre series, Hostel, Tears of Kali, ect.). It has a very romantic feel at times(like in the Opera House) because of the lush rich colors(like red) but there is no real romance between Erik Destler and Christine Day. She is afraid of him and he lusts after her(wow, like Frollo and Esmarelda). In fact he looks like he attempts to rape her but is distracted when he hears Richard and the Inspector, at the end. As for the gory parts Joseph gets cut open and blood sprays Erik's face while he looks like he is having an orgasam, Then we see Joseph with out skin( all gooey) hung in Carlotta's closet.
Thug 1 gets stabed in the gut(with blood coming out of his mouth)and Thug 2 gets his head cut off and used as a bowling ball(looks like Erik's having some fun). The main thugs death isn't that bad, with my fovrite lines from the film.(MainThug: Youre a thing from hell! Erik: And you, sir, are hell bound!)Carlotta gets her head cut off and put in a stew (Boiled head any one?) The Ratchacher gets impailed a police man get his throat slit and The inspector's partner gets his Heart riped out. Then someone very important to Christine gets stabed and set on fire(HAHA!). Plus all the times Erik puts on or takes off his "mask" and at the end he gets his "face" ripped off to reveal a slimmy mess of a face. So you probably wouldn't like it, but I love it, it is one of my favorite Phantom films(first being Lon Chaney's). I think it has a very Leroux feel to it. I thought the Graveyard scene was just beautiful. I'm glad Robert Englund made Erik not all demon(when He watches Christine as Margerite like an amazed child and when he cries when she sings his music). I didn't like the whole soled his soul to the devil and because of it he's deformed or the time travel bit but I've read they did this because they were planning a sequal (even before they made the first). In the sequal Erik falls in love with a blind girl and lives in the subway tunnels. He acts like Fagin from Oliver Twist and teaches homeless kids how to survive. The blind girls father gets killed by skinheads and Erik must have his revenge.

sorry I wrote so long I just had a lot to say about this movie.

Well...Alrighty then. I mean, the gory parts wouldn't be my favorite part, but I don't faint at the sight of blood, if you understand what I mean. But yes, I do adore the romantic parts of the Phantom, though the psychotic (for one of a better word)parts do intrigue me.

I'm very curious about this version. It is one of the few POTO- versions I haven't seen yet. I bought it a few days ago on DVD, but I have to wait until my computer can play it...

Ehhh I didnt like this version so much, it was too gory, it was more about violence and revenge than love and music. And the whole thing of modern day, then is flashes back to the old days? And the Phantom appears in modern day, and kill him by destroying his music? ehh, not good at all.

I found it a strange version. Not my favourite one, but an intruiging one.

I liked the fact that it had a few Leroux things in it, like the graveyard-scene with the violin, I haven't seen that in other versions yet, and the 'horrible' distortion of his face. And it has a few memorable quotes in it (like 'only love and music are forever')

A few things I disliked were the gardrobe scene (I don't want to write spoilers; I guess that the people who have seen the movie know what I mean ), the violence troughout the movie and the changing of the names (Day instead of Daee and Richard instead of Raoul).

But still I prefer more the Charles Dance version...

Hm...*is confused* I thought I left a comment here somewhere...meh, no matter. I can leave one now! XD

REVIEW TIME!!

---(Spoilers ahead)---

First off, I would like to mention that I have a pretty warped sense of humor when it comes to violence in movies, simply because it's either really fake or really exaggerated.

That being said, I thought this version was rather amusing. Somehow the whole aspect of Erik actually being violent in a destructive way was just...I don't know, to be honest, I thought the whole thing was simply hilarious.

It was really hard for me to take this version seriously because of that. The only thing that really disturbed me was that Joseph Buquet was found HANGED AND SKINNED in Carlotta's wardrobe, and that Erik sews skin onto his face. 0.o;; Not only that, but when the skin is dead, he RIPS IT OFF and sews on "fresh" skin! Yikes.

I also thought Richard (a.k.a. Raoul) was treated coldly in terms of his death. >.< I went into this version knowing full well that he wasn't going to end up with Christine. But, damn, they didn't have to make his death so cold!! I can understand him being stabbed, but then SET ON FIRE??? 0.0;; Yikes! Just, NO. (Ah, *sigh* poor Raoul, we just can't get a break, can we? -_-;;)

Other than that, it was pretty amusing and wacky good fun. My favorite part was Carlotta's head in the soup at the Masquerade Ball. XDD Simply because I saw it coming! I love predicting things. I watched this movie with my sister, and right after the part where Erik and Carlotta have their little "encounter" in the hallway we see the food table. I say to my sis, "Watch her head be in the soup. " And, lo and behold - it is!! I laughed so hard!!! Yes, I realize it's not funny. It's downright SICK; but I couldn't help laughing. XD

Perhaps I found it amusing because, as far as horror films go, it's probably pretty bad. But I've always thought horror films were overrated, so I can't judge that aspect of it.

I also liked the end. It was very fitting. In fact,this is one of the very few (if not the only) adaptation of PotO where I really enjoyed the ending! The final scene is classic: Christine has finally just gotten rid of Erik (the second time) and she's walking down a street where she finds a violinist sitting on the sidewalk. She likes his playing and tosses the poor man a quarter. As she begins to walk away, the violinist's aura changes, upon which he begins to play the opening measures of "Don Juan". Christine slowly turns back to him, her eyes wide in fear with an expression that just screams "OH HELL NO..."

Here we go again...

Lol. XD

But, I digress.

Anyway, bottom line: This is, imo, a fairly decent version and everyone should see it at least once (unless you feel you can't stomach the violence, because the skin-grafting thing is pretty icky...)

Hi-chan out.

Well, I saw this version not so long time ago, because I did not want to see it, because its reviews said it is gory and not good version and I was a little bit suspicious.



But now, I must say, it worth seeing! It is, in my opinion, a great version. I enjoyed it very much, because here, I saw a Leroux -friendly Erik, not over- romaticized like Charles Dance ( no offense, I love him to pieces, but he wasn't a true Erik)because we could see his evil side too, and let's face it: Leroux Erik IS that creepy.

On the other hand, they show Erik's cute side too. Let's face it: you certainly liked Erik when he was in box 5 and made those cute faces when he listened to Christine's singing. And when he takes Christine to his lair for the first time, he is very friendly and cute. Even in the end when he takes Christine to his home, I can't help, but think how cute he is.

As for the gory parts: it wasn't that bad, not too much blood, but I must tell you that I can handle the sight of blood very well. But, I think, it wasn't bad. As for the skin sewing part... well it was weird, because I constantly tought of: " Poor Erik, it must hurt.", so, I dare say, I even love Erik MORE after seeing this version. As for the idea itself, I think it is no problem with that. It was a new and interesting idea to see such a thing.

Time travel: Yes, little bit confusing, but if you can accept it ( and why can't you, there are much more confusing parts in movies with time travel included), it is okay. And I loved the ending very much.

The music was gorgeous, the plot was interesting, and I enjoyed every minute of the film.

So, all in all, if you can handle the sight of a little blood, and you want to see a Leroux- based personality of Erik, not the toned down versions, I strongly advise you to see this movie.