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Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

  • Joined: 14 Sep 2006 14:40
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Your computer sucks. Period.

Here is operafantomet's description:

A dress inspired by the Spanish Flamenco dance and folk costumes, but also by 18.th century fashion (with the bodice being closed over the breast as a Pierrot jacket, displaying another bodice or corset underneath. And of course the little white linen apron. The flounced pagoda sleeves also points towards the 18.th century, though they were much in vogue in the Victorian era too. Sadly, only few costumes includes the little apron (I've seen in in England, Spain and Germany).

The original dress used By Sarah Brightman in both West End and Broadway had real laces on the flounced layers, but most later versions has had embroideries instead. This gives a lighter look, but in my opinion both versions work well. The dress use a peachy pink silk dupioni, and the embroideries are mostly chain stitch. The US dresses has netting layers peeking out under the embroidered layers, I'm guessing as an extra "fluffing" effect, but also to emphasize the layers. The costume also includes an embroideried shawl plus black, high-heeled boots.


Original West End:

Open in new window


Early US:

Open in new window


Also, adding on to what Miss Daae said, the costume designs are somewhat vague compared to the amount of detailing (trims, fabrics, collar, etc.) that's on the actual costume. So each costume supervisor (or wardrobe crew) will interpret it differently.

Not sure about Spanish lace, it just looks like some scalloped crap to me.

Posted on: 23 Dec 2008 22:30

Edited by Viscountess on 23 Dec 2008 22:32:48
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Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes
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  • Quote:

    Viscountess wrote:
    Your computer sucks. Period.


    Yes it does. At least somebody agrees with me on this!

    Ohhh...scallops? Wow. I never would have guessed.=-) Ok, now I can see it more clearly...the dress goes down to about...the lower shins? Something of the sort?

    Thanks!

    Posted on: 23 Dec 2008 22:38
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 14 Sep 2006 14:40
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    Like I said, mid-calf:

    Open in new window


    Some angles are deceiving, especially when she sitting down.

    I really hate the internet. It's impossible to look for "black lace" without getting a woman in lingerie on every other result. Fucking perverts. Nevermind that, I'll just link you to operafantomet's costume:

    http://www.phantomess.com/forum/viewt ... s=0&postorder=asc&start=0

    Edit: Damn case-sensitive tags.

    Posted on: 23 Dec 2008 22:47

    Edited by Viscountess on 23 Dec 2008 22:50:30
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes
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  • Awww...thanks for going through all that trouble!

    *tosses Viscountess a treat*

    Yes, photographs are VERY decieving. Yah, that clears things up...alot!

    Posted on: 23 Dec 2008 22:58
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 29 Nov 2006 21:55
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    Quote:

    Viscountess wrote:
    Only a few versions use lace, and besides the shortest the dress should be is mid-calf length with boots long enough to meet the hem.



    Unless you're going for the original design look... then... well... it would be more like a naughty-Aminta-secretary look (complete with mid-calf booties, a mid-thigh skirt, and a very low-scooped neckline).



    Quote:

    Viscountess wrote:
    I really hate the internet. It's impossible to look for "black lace" without getting a woman in lingerie on every other result. Fucking perverts.




    I agree with you there. It's the same when looking for corsets, too.

    Posted on: 24 Dec 2008 17:08
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 27 Apr 2005 12:09
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    Quote:

    Viscountess wrote:

    Not sure about Spanish lace, it just looks like some scalloped crap to me.

    Scalloped CRAP? Hahaha! But otherwise I agree with you. I remember to have read that the original West End wedding dress used French lace, but I have never read about the origin of the black lace for the Aminta costume. It is designed to give a Spanish flair, like various Flamenco dresses, but that can be created by any lace. Or almost, anyway.

    I'm using lace (not embroidery) for my replica, and one thing I was very eager about when looking for lace was for it to be somewhat transparent. The more it reflects the salmon silk underneath, the richer it'll look. The original West End costumes had a quite thick/non-transparent lace, giving the scalloped layers a compact look:
    http://geocities.com/amintacostume/orig7.jpg
    http://geocities.com/amintacostume/origmk1.jpg

    The first Broadway dresses got a lighter lace, which gave the whole dress a lighter look:
    http://geocities.com/amintacostume/usorigssb.jpg
    http://geocities.com/amintacostume/usmall.jpg

    I've also spend a lot of time cutting various curves and point into my lace, so it would get the nice curves of the newer embroidered versions, like here:
    http://geocities.com/amintacostume/usexh1.jpg

    How my lace looks after cutting, shaping and sewing:
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31 ... et/aminta/amintalace3.jpg

    As for the lenght of the skirt, this has also been answered above. I can add this: There ARE some variations of lenght. The ideal lenght is mid-leg lenght, covering the knee, but not reaching as far down as the black boots. As costumes are re-used as much as possible, the length may vary from wearer to wearer. A hand-me-down costume will never have as perfect fit as a tailor-made one. But skirts and bodices can be mixed, so a very good fit is achieved.

    Skirt lenght vary between productions. Not much, but a bit. The Australian versions of this costume (also used in Korea and the World Tour) have remarkably long skirts:
    http://geocities.com/amintacostume/wt6.jpg
    http://geocities.com/amintacostume/aussiemp3.jpg
    http://geocities.com/amintacostume/wt2.jpg

    I think it's due to the long distance between each scalloped layer. Most other costumes are 1-2 inch shorter, with variations.

    I hope that helped! If you're still not able to access Geocities, maybe you could try another browser? Safari, Firefox or Opera (especially Firefox) usually works.

    And a tip when looking for lace and the likes online: put a minus ( - ) in front of the hits you DON'T want to get. For example "lingerie". Another trick is to add words like "yards", "roll" or whatever might suggest you're looking for sewing stuff.

    Posted on: 1 Jan 2009 14:20

    Edited by operafantomet on 1 Jan 2009 14:23:10
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes
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  • I got the links you gave me to work, Operafantomet. Thanks for taking the time to answer!

    That really explained it all!

    By the way, your lace is gorgeous! I love it! The fabric is also very pretty...love it!

    And, as an off topic thing...

    http://geocities.com/amintacostume/wt2.jpg

    The above picture of the Aminta dress is my least favorite dress of all time and...

    http://geocities.com/amintacostume/aussiemp3.jpg

    The above Christine gives me the heebie jeebies.

    Posted on: 5 Jan 2009 7:24
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 27 Apr 2005 12:09
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    Quote:

    Magical Lasso User wrote:
    http://geocities.com/amintacostume/wt2.jpg

    The above picture of the Aminta dress is my least favorite dress of all time and...

    It's not my favourite either... Especially not that back shot. I do like some of the ideas of the Aussie Aminta dress, but in general I find the details to be too long - the lace cuffs are extremely long, the skirt is very long, the distance between each layer is too long, the stomacher is too long... They're so well crafted, but I'm just not digging the proportions. This is of course based on MY preferences...

    Speaking of which, I've now made one of the flounced layers for the skirt! That really felt like progress. Hooray! It can be seen here:
    http://www.geocities.com/pisslei/aminta.html

    Posted on: 5 Jan 2009 11:17
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 29 Nov 2006 21:55
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    Hrm... I've never noticed the lighter lace on the original Broadway version, I always thought that it was a embroidery or something. I really do wish I had an embroidery machine, though... and the patience that would require working on each flounce.

    Posted on: 10 Jan 2009 15:30
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 14 Sep 2006 14:40
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    I'm with you there, I just wish I had the patience to even get through a costume... the RIGHT way. My "Meg" costume came out horribly, sure it looked like a wonderfully sparkly outfit to the untrained eye, but the thing was so improved it wasn't even funny. I was literally pinning up the collar and various places one minute before class started. And the skirt was barely holding on by the end of the day...

    Where was I? Oh yeah, I have zero patience and the attention span of a goldfish. I feel your pain.

    EDIT: Happiness is your favorite threads being revived. Missed you!

    Posted on: 10 Jan 2009 15:38

    Edited by Viscountess on 10 Jan 2009 15:58:52
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 29 Nov 2006 21:55
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    What class did you use it for? Do you have any pictures?

    Posted on: 10 Jan 2009 15:43
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 14 Sep 2006 14:40
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    Okay, here we go. The costume was horrible and made me look waaay fat:

    Open in new window


    Open in new window


    Open in new window


    Open in new window


    I apologize for the arbitrarily cropped areas, but some things had to be hidden.

    Posted on: 10 Jan 2009 16:06

    Edited by Viscountess on 10 Jan 2009 16:10:06
    Edited by Viscountess on 10 Jan 2009 16:21:41
    Edited by Viscountess on 10 Jan 2009 16:24:31
    Edited by Viscountess on 10 Jan 2009 16:27:29
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 23 Dec 2008 21:50
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    If anyone is looking for a Red Death or Phantom mask, here's a site:

    http://www.anymask.com/phantom-halfmask.html

    This one has some lovely Venetian masks:

    http://www.kinkyangel.co.uk/index.php ... OGiyq_Ym5gCFQHHGgodkRrmnQ

    Hope this helps!!

    Posted on: 19 Jan 2009 20:35
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

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    Also, for anyone who likes persian jewelry, i have found a few interesting pieces on craigslist.

    Posted on: 19 Jan 2009 20:47
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 29 Nov 2006 21:55
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    It looks fine, Viscountess. Did you make a jacket to go with it?


    Erik'sAngel- the site has an 'Edit' button for a reason.

    Posted on: 19 Jan 2009 20:58
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes
  • Guest_
  • V, I love the costume! It looks really good. And no, it doesn't make you look fat.

    Erik'sAngel- Miss Daae said it. The edit button is our friend. It loves being used. The sites you gave where great, although this site's masks are slightly...well...The white half mask appears stretched out, and it's not at all anything like any mask from movie or stage. The Red Death mask always seemed like the eyes were too big for me, but it works. I guess.

    Posted on: 20 Jan 2009 4:29
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

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    sorry bout that. I was slightly hurried yesterday. Anyways, now that you mention it, those masks don't look that great...oh well. I really loved the venetian masks, but I don't know if they would be "MASQUERADE" appropriate.

    Posted on: 20 Jan 2009 17:38
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 14 Sep 2006 14:40
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    Quote:

    Miss Daae wrote:
    It looks fine, Viscountess. Did you make a jacket to go with it?
    Nope, I was unable to make a jacket because I just could not find the right fabric. You'd think finding pink and black brocade would be like, ridiculously easy, right? Yeah, it surprised me too. The closest thing I found was this gorgeous pink stuff, with an iridescent black sheen, but that was $30 a yard, I wasn't ready to spend all that when I knew I would screw-up eventually. I mean, I mess up all the other parts...

    Quote:

    Magical Lasso User wrote:
    V, I love the costume! It looks really good. And no, it doesn't make you look fat.
    Thanks, I appreciate it.

    Well, no matter. I shall start anew with another costume!

    Posted on: 20 Jan 2009 22:45
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes
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  • ^^ You're welcome! You're so talented! I adore the stage version costumes...they always appear more detailed than the movie ones. After I finish my current project, I am totally going for the Masquerade costume. It's lovely. And colorful.

    Well, V, keep us updated with your costumes!

    'Cuz im lyk, ur bigust fan evah!

    Posted on: 21 Jan 2009 2:39
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 29 Nov 2006 21:55
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    Quote:

    Viscountess wrote:
    Nope, I was unable to make a jacket because I just could not find the right fabric. You'd think finding pink and black brocade would be like, ridiculously easy, right? Yeah, it surprised me too. The closest thing I found was this gorgeous pink stuff, with an iridescent black sheen, but that was $30 a yard, I wasn't ready to spend all that when I knew I would screw-up eventually. I mean, I mess up all the other parts...




    $30 a yard?!?!?!?

    I'm kinda scared to start on my scallops... I've been pretty busy, and that's why I haven't gotten to my sewing machine. Enough with excuses! I'm gonna try, and succeed... I just need more research. Bah humbug.

    Oh, and I found a nearly perfect fabric for a dressing gown, when I get to that costume... I'll post a picture of it someday. I'd have to bleach it, because it's light pink. It has the nice flow to it and everything.

    Posted on: 27 Jan 2009 15:00
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes
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  • V, let me know what costume you are going to make next:I'm dying of curiousity.

    $30 a yard??? I bet the frabric wasn't WORTH it. That is definately a rip off. But it sounds gorgeous.

    Ms.Daae, good luck with those scallops. They aren't very easy to do, I am sure.

    Posted on: 29 Jan 2009 5:55
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 27 Apr 2005 12:09
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    I've updated the Aminta gallery a bit, with some new pics from Denmark, Austria and the original US one:
    http://www.geocities.com/amintacostume/versions


    My own costume replica of the Aminta dress is also coming along. The bodice is finished, except the lace engageants/cuffs. As for the skirt, I only lack one flounced layer of the skirt before I can start on the apron front and the black underskirt. Hooray! Progress can be followed here:
    http://www.geocities.com/pisslei/aminta.html


    Last, but not least, I've made a "tutorial light" on how to make scalloped lace for the Aminta costume (or how the embroidery should look):
    http://www.geocities.com/pisslei/amintalace.html

    Posted on: 15 Feb 2009 5:50
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 29 Nov 2006 21:55
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    Here's a neat article that speaks of costumes: http://blog.syracuse.com/entertainment/2007/09/more_phantom.html

    Thought you guys might enjoy Sarah Lawrence's input

    Posted on: 24 Mar 2009 16:21
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 28 Jun 2007 21:59
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    All right, I've decided on my summer project: a Phantom costume recreation.

    I know little, if not nothing, about sewing. I'm just plain terrible. But I figure I have to learn sometime, and this might be a fun way to do it. My mom is pretty knowledgeable, so I plan to force her to help me, since it was a big fad when she was a kid to sew your own clothes.

    Anyways, I'm planning on doing Christine's stageshow Masquerade, with some minor changes and simplifications. For the skirt, I'll probably make a huge circle out of the fabric so it's twirly and then add a shitload of tulle, because it's cheap and fluffy (to give the skirt that poof!). Then, for the bodice, I think I want to attach the sleeve parts to it. I'm also considering putting boning in, although it sounds near impossible, I'm willing to slave away at almost anything.

    I live in suburban hell, so materials might be a little more difficult to come by without the convenience of stores ten feet away, but if anyone knows where items I might need (besides fabric stores) might be picked up, that'd be great.

    It's in its minor planning stages, but any help/input/suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks!

    Posted on: 22 Apr 2009 18:55
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    Re: Phantom of the Opera stage version of costumes

    • Joined: 27 Apr 2005 12:09
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    Quote:

    A New Margarita wrote:
    (...)

    It's in its minor planning stages, but any help/input/suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks!

    But of course we'll help!! Especially when you actually have a plan on which costume to recreate, and how you plan to do it.

    First, have a look at the costume design for this particular costume:
    http://www.geocities.com/allpotocostumes/masquestar

    Second, check out the picture gallery to choose app. which version you want to recreate, or details you want:
    http://www.geocities.com/masqueradecostume/versions

    For the skirt, you need a sort of fluffy underskirt - a tutu, or something similar to this:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Sexy-Layered- ... cks?hash=item310136183057

    It's not too hard to make yourself. I made something similar for my Aminta costume (the shape of the skirt is very much alike the Masquerade costume). I made a circle of plain cotton, attaching it to a waistband. This formed the base of the underskirt. To this base I attached three layers of semi-still netting - two layers of a ca. 6 meter long strip, gathered at the top, was attached to the hem. On top I added yet another 6 meter strip (also gathered). This strip was only attached to the back of the skirt:
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31 ... t/aminta/amintaunder3.jpg

    It is a very fluffy and nice underskirt, giving the right support and shape. It's similar to what (at least) European versions of the Masquerade skirt has, only it should be sky blue instead of black.

    On top, you could put a layer or two of your desired material - silk, sparkly and fine tulle etc. The skirt needs to be full, a bit fuller than a full circle. You can attach everything to a waistband, and close it with either hooks and eyes or velcro in the back.

    For the bodice, you need a corset-like pattern. The tabs might remind of an 18.th century corset, but don't choose this... What's what I did, but what I forgot was that the bodice should first and foremost have an hourglass shape, being flared over the hips and giving room for your "ladies", while emphasizing the waist. A 19.th century corset will do this. An 18.th century corset, on the other hand, would make the torso cone shaped and flat, pushing everything upwards.

    18.th century: http://laracorsets.com/images/Corset_ ... es/18th_cen_mfa119854.jpg
    19.th century: http://laracorsets.com/Antique_corset_0114.htm

    Just to give you an idea of the difference in shape.

    I'm not saying you have to make a corset for this costume, though! Just trying to point you into the right direction when it comes to shape. I haven't found any good patterns that will give you both the tabs and the hourglass shape - best is probably this, but you would need to replace the side lacing by a back closing, and you need to make the tabs rounder and (probably) longer:
    http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M4861.htm?tab=costumes&page=4

    As for fabric/materials for the bodice.... Probably the hardest part. I dip-dyed white silk to make a pink/blue fabric with colours blending in the middle:
    http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31 ... uerade/masqueplainbod.jpg

    It was then decorated with loads and loads of sparkling "crystals" in horizontal and vertical rows, plus loooooong strips of fabric (with metallic trims) being gathered and attached to the neck opening:
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31 ... /masquerade/masquegi3.jpg

    My friend Josefine chose another solution, a very clever one: she added various layers of transparent fabric to create the eventual grading of colour, from pink in the bottom to purplish blue at the top. A very nice effect.

    I hope that helped you somehow. Feel free to ask more questions! Do you have a specific version in mind, or do you fancy the costume in general? The more specific you are, the easier it is to suggest fabrics, materials, patterns etc. :)

    Posted on: 23 Apr 2009 17:22
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